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with jim. the most deficit reduction is gog toome from no deal. and that's what we need. that's what this economy needs, the biggest threat to economic growth, if the deficit and the debt, 4 trillion, everybody talks about it as some sort of grand bargain. it's barely a start. this isn't a fiscal cliff, it's a fisca bunny hill, let's slide down it. >> if we slide down, jonas, in the first week, people are going to open up the paycheck and see less money there. i don't think that people understandhat at this point. >> people get used to tax cs, that's the problem. shoort-term expiring tax cuts, including the payroll tax cut. you know, it's not the best way to solve a problem, but th cliff is the result of not coming up with deals and they're not going to come up with battery deal, if it's negotiated it's nothe ideal way to solve it outfter deficit. we'd like t gradually raise taxes and cut spending, but this is the best we're going to get. any of the deals they would agree on, probably leave us to the other guest's pot, close to a trillion dollars anyway, and it's the closest shot lea
to address social security, which is now officially running a deficit, medicare, medicaid costs are growing ast nomically. at least do a dumb deal now and get people over the fiscal cliff and kick the can down the road, that's going to happen anyway. >> steve, no deal, bad deal? i kind of feel like i'm playing poker. what do you think? >> i can't believe it, but i agree with jim. the most deficit reduction is going to come from no deal. and that's what we need. that's what this economy needs, the biggest threat to economic growth, if the deficit and the debt, 4 trillion, everybody talks about it as some sort of grand bargain. it's barely a start. this isn't a fiscal cliff, it's a fiscal bunny hill, let's slide down it. >> if we slide down, jonas, in the first week, people are going to open up the paycheck and see less money there. i don't think that people understand that at this point. >> people get used to tax cuts, that's the problem. short-term expiring tax cuts, including the payroll tax cut. you know, it's not the best way to solve a problem, but this cliff is the result of not coming
to reduce the deficit. one trillion dollars in spending cuts over the next 10 years but these changes would result in more savings in the next 10 years and would solve our deficit problems for a decade. they say their biggest priority is dealing with the deficit. they are behaving and protecting the tax breaks for the wealthiest americans. that seems to be their overriding theme. host: a new development yesterday, the vice president joe biden was called in by mitch mcconnell, who said he needed a dance partner in all of this. guest: if you remember on friday, the president said he was going to turn over the lead to senator reid and senator mcconnell to work out a deal that could pass the senate and that he would sign on to whatever deal that was. senator reid and senator mcconnell were not able to reach that deal. the negotiations between them have turned increasingly bitter and senator mcconnell basically said that he could not work with senator read anymore and reached out to joe biden and ask him to resume the role that he has had in previous negotiations. the arbiter, the deal maker. jo
deficit and debt and then a more recent one that passes an extension of all the bush tax cuts. so the their position right now, at least speaker boehner's is, hey, it is time for the senate to act on some of our bills. we'll keep an eye what is happening there. heather: busy day for them. president obama taking his case to the american public. here is what he had to say about the situation playing out on capitol hill. >> what's been holding us back is the dysfunction here in washington and if, you know, people start to see that on january 1st this problem still hasn't been solved, that we haven't seen the deficit reduction we could have had, the republicans been willing to take the deal i gave them, if they say, that people's taxes have gone up, which means consumer spending is going to be depressed, obviously that will adverse reaction in the markets. heather: there is lot at stake for all americans. three big issues on the financial front this morning as a matter of fact,. stu varney, host of "varney & company" on the fox business network joins us now. stu, no deal on capitol hi
hasn't been solved, that we haven't seen the deficit reduction that we could have had had the republicans been willing to take the deal that i gave them, if they say that people's taxes have gone up, which means consumer spending is going to be depressed, then, obviously, that's going to have an adverse reaction in the markets. >> what about automatic spending cuts? those take effect january 1st, as well. do they have to be part of this deal? you've got half of those cuts in defense law? >> well, congress agreed they would cut an additional $1.2 trillion in spending. they put a committee together to try to come up with those numbers. they didn't figure out how to do it. so what we now have is a situation where these automatic spending cuts go into place. now, if we have raised some revenue by the wealthy paying a little bit more, that would be sufficient to turn off what is so-called the sequester, these automatic spending cuts, and that also would have a better outcome for our economy long-term. but, you know, so far, at least, congress has not been able to get this stuff
. i heard one of your previous news segments saying oh this is going to reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars. it's not going to come anywhere near reducing the deficit by a trillion dollars. if you do this tax increase on the rich, you maybe raise 40 billion dollars a year. that's not nothing, but 40 billion dollars over a year over ten years that's 400 billion. we're running a trillion dollars deficit. this is not a solution and not serious. that's why it always comes back to dealing with the spending side of the aisle because that's where the deficits come from. dagen: last thing, steve, what about the fate of house speaker john boehner because there's a lot more at play than just raising taxes on people who make more than a million dollars with what we saw happen last week? >> yeah, you know, i have always been a fan of john boehner's. i've known him for 20 years. i think he's a strong conservative. he's got a bit of a conservative revolt on his hands dagen. any time you have a high-profile issue like this and you are about to bring to it the floor and you have a rev
years of the obama administration, on the budget, on deficit, on tax cuts years ago. they came together before christmas. it's hard to see how this works out at this point, to tell you the truth. there is a conference call at 2:30 among house republicans trying to decide what to do. we expect the leadership to let the rank and file know what their plans are. the speaker is not in washington. we understand he is in ohio of his home state. the president has landed here back at the white house in washington. it's unclear exactly where they go from here. essentially what john boehner is saying, you go first, harry reid. harry reid is trying to jam mitch mcconnell into allowing this vote to go forward without the 60-vote threshold, something that's necessary for virtually every vote here in the senate and mitch mcconnell says it's time for president obama to lead. the threshold question is, can something pass the house of representatives? can john boehner put something on the floor that needs the majority of democrat support that will not get republican support and none to speak of that woul
to the deficit, i just want to make sure that that money goes to the deficit in reality. it seems to me that that number comes up and is a political situation and what congress is really saying is that i am going to pander to the 98% because if i go to 125%, i will upset more of the electorate. i was listening to david brooks this morning and his comments that the real dysfunctional people are not necessarily congress, but the american people who are prepared to pass these deficits on to our grandchildren. >> have you looked at how any tax increases might affect you? had you planned for that at all? caller: i am comfortable enough, i am planned -- and i plan to give more. i would hope that most people in my financial situation would be prepared to do that. >> the democratic line is next, california. donna, hello. caller: i would like to state -- i think that one of our biggest problems is that the republican party has sold us out to grovers inquest. i think that everyone who took that pledge should be fired from the congress. they took an oath of office first. they have given away the o
that it's not as if we didn't see this coming. nobody is blaming the deficit reduction supercommittee and the fact of their failure to have a bipartisan agreement is really what triggered this fiscal cliff in the the first place. stuart: is it a failure of president obama to lead? i mean, else's the president of the united states of america. we are facing a fiscal crisis right now, an economic crisis, for heaven's sake. shouldn't we expect the president to go a long way towards dealing with this and leading us out of it? and i don't see it, frankly. >> i don't either. and i think his view, honest he isly, he just won an election and so he calls the shots and republicans should just follow along, even though republicans kept their majority in the house and there's a great deal of the country that does not support the way that obama would like to deal with this problem. stuart: look how it's been presented in the establishment media. president obama cutting short his holiday vacation, returning to washington trying to fix the fiscal mess. thank you very much, mr. president. mr. boehner,
. >> this is a manufactured crisis. we don't have a short-term deficit problem. we have a jobs and growth problem and we have a faltering recovery. we should put off the sequester. put off this grand bargain. come back. let the bush tax cuts expire. make sure the middle class doesn't have to pavement the schif a manufactured media drama. >> laura: wow, can you say out of touch? joining us now from new york is maxwell a democratic strategist and guy benson the political editor for "town hall.com." okay. this is quite something. we have been hearing from the obama white house, the congressional budgetffice and any number of conservative economistst that this is serious. that we have got to get this thing done that we have got to get it in order. or at some point america's full faith and credit is going to go away. we are not going to look so good to the rest of the world as far as credit risk. so let's talk to you about this. is this a manufactured media crisis or does something substantial need to be done here? >> well, i certainly think that the fiscal cliff, that language is a manufactured media narrative.
do anything to reduce the deficit and this was all supposed to be an exercise in bringing down our deficit and our long-term debt and where we are right now, it doesn't appear that we are getting that done and even more importantly, it appears that republicans are still trying to protect the tippy top as opposed to looking after the greater good of the economy and middle class families. >> as far as you-all were told by the democratic leader, where do you think stands -- things stand right now? >> i think that there is a difference in terms of what we think the rates should be for -- and at what point there should be a tax cut and at what point there should be a little revenue that we should collect. there is a difference there. there was a difference about whether or not we should be looking at the social security issue in this discussion. my understanding now the republicans have backed off now, correct, and we are looking at whether or not we are going to end up with deficit and debt reduction and whether or not the changes the republicans are insisting upon are going to comes o
is this because supposed to be a down payment on deficit reduction, and when you think about the things that could be in this bill, whether it's increasing rates for doctors in medicare, as well as possibly delaying the defense sequester, this bill could actually cost money and increase the deficit especially when you're talking about the tax rates. because remember cbo assumes that the tax rates are actually going to go back to clinton rates. so that is going to be a cost there. and that will be a problem in the house if this score comes back as blowing a hole in the deficit that will be a problem getting the votes even if they get a tkaoefrpblgts you're no deal. >> reporter: you're not confident at all that the money they get will be used to pay don't debt. >> i think some of it will. when you think about all the things that could be in this bill there are some pricey price tags here that are going to increase this bill and basically that is going to be a problem when house conservatives hear that this is actually going to increase the deficit. there will also be a problem for the credit rating
across the country. we talk about reducing deficits and having a responsible budget for 20 years. this is actually, it will you go over the cliff and nothing changes, the largest single day of the deficit reduction in world history. it is $600 billion in deficit reduction trust by the turn in the calendar. over the long term, you look at what that does, we are in much better shape over the long term by going off the cliff. the problem is that right now, we are still very slowly recovering from the worst financial crisis it had since the great depression. it probably is not the time to be having such large deficit reduction. that is why we and others have been focused on getting some kind of a larger deal that can ensure we do not have this extensive short-term deficit reduction. if we start to deal with these problems now, we can do so adequately and without too much short-term economic pain and helping the economy. from let's go to patricia oak creek, wisconsin on the democratic line. caller: good morning, and happy new year to the both of you. i feel so sad for our poor country
the difference between the annual deficit and the national debt. the national debt is the fiscal cliff. we say it's unsustainable. from a mathematical standpoint, it is almost insurmountable. the only thing these taxes will do, i have graduate students who could not put into words what a trillion dollars was. host: go ahead and finish your thought on what these taxes will do. caller: what they will do is they will give the politicians a little leeway to fool around with the national deficit, the annual deficit, but they will not put a dent in the $16 trillion debt that we owe. that is the problem. host: we appreciate that call. over the past couple weeks, c- span has been conducting interviews with some of the retiring members. we have been showing those interviewed this week. tonight, one of the retiring members we spoke with is representative lynn woolsey, a democrat of california, served about 20 years. here's a portion of that interview. [video clip] >> i was on welfare because my children, ages 1, 3, and five years old, their father was diagnosed manic depressive, he would not do anything ab
congress is on pluto and we're all on earth. they say they want deficit reduction. if you go over the cliff, you get deficit reduction, you just don't get it in the responsible, accountable way. it's like chopping off on arm. >> like says i want a shower, i'm going to niagra falls. >> they still can't get it done. we're dysfunctional. no other explanation. >> i think they can stop the roller coaster and make it go. they're doing a dance now because republicans don't want to do something to rates. obama wants to play hardball. but i think they'll have a different argument later in the year. >> i guess both believe it's better to go over the falls than cut a deal that's going to hurt them at home. tea party people don't respond to boehner or to cantor or mccarthy or any of them. somebody in the next tea party is going to be yelling from the back, you sold us out. i think that's why the tea party is never going to be functional. they don't really respond to getting things done. they respond to anger back home. >> i think 2014 democrats are also aware of these tax increases. they don't want to
the deficit and really end our national debt. potentially, a significant blow to the obamacare controversial o contraceptive mandate. the eighth circuit court of appeals in the preliminary injunction to stop the mandate for being enforced agast the missouri catholic businesswne owners.the li the list of statesst o now, refg to set up state-run health care exchanges for insurance. it is growing. arizona becomes the latest to telling federal government but it will have to assume the burden of operating the exchange and the cost and the supervision, perhaps even running backstage, bringing the total number of states refusing to set up an exchange under obamacare to 17 states. ten other states remainm undecided as to the course they will take or it will be state, the way, the 17 states havenow e republican governors.ppellate we are joined now by peter johnson. it's great to see you. >> thank you for having me, louu dobbs. lou: what is your reaction totie that injunction against the contraceptive mandate? >> it is a surprisingri, injunction. they lost below mr. pringle bryant and his company.y that
grow our economy and shrink the deficit. a balanced plan that would cut spending in a responsible way but also ask the wealthiest americans to pay a little more. and above all, protect our middle class and everybody who is striving to get into the middle class. i still want to get this done. it is the right thing to do for our families, four or businesses and for our entire economy but the hour for immediate action is here. it is now. we're now at the point where in just four days every american's tax rates are scheduled to go up by law. every american's paycheck will get consider bring smaller. and that would be the wrong thing to do for our economy. it would be bad for middle class families and it would be bad for businesses that spend, depend on family spending. fortunately congress can prevent it from happening if they act right now. i just had a good and constructive discussion here at the white house with senate and house leadership about how to prevent this tax hike on the middle class. and i'm optimistic we may still be able to reach an agreement that can pass both houses in t
and the things we need to get this deficit and debt under control. it's about getting the economy on track and also getting the deficit under control. adam: you are a moderate, highly popular in the state of north dakota, and you have compromised with both sides on these issues, but the vast majority of the public looks at congress, all of you, the house of representatives and the senate looking at you guys with disgust. is that coming across in the halls of the capitol? do the people there understand what the people out here, the 310 million of us consider when we think about the political leadership? >> i think that is absolutely what's pushing the negotiation why we have to stay at it. as i said a minute ago, i'm in the camp where we have to continue to push until we get the job done. i'd like the big deal now. if we don't get the deal, get as much as we can and continue to go after the things we're talking about, the reforms and the savings, that we need. adam: senator, we appreciate you being with us here on fox business. while president obama and the congressional leaders work or app
a $6 billion surplus when it comes to exporting services, and a huge deficit when it comes to manufacturing. so the -- the finance done correctly which is figuring out how to mamp capital with good -- match capital with good ideas is important and having complex innovations in that is important for america's system. the problem is short termism, short term thinking, where finance comes come in and bankrupt companies for short term gain rather than thinking what's the viable, long term model of a long term rate of return? i think that has to do with corporate governance laws for incentives and structures that don't require -- that incentivize managers to make long term decisions rather than maximizing just the quarterly shareholders' profits. >> did you see the incentives that could be changed to emphasize smallness rather than bigness? >> absolutely, and i thinking the -- a lot of the department of commerce is programmed to help small and medium sized businesses. there is the best -- i took 50% of the jobs in manufacturing are small and medium sized companies, and small com
taxpayer support for wind projects. with our budget deficit soaring an intense debate is heating up over whether the government should be throwing your tax dollars at industry the first place. i asked robert bryce, senior fellow at the manhattan institute about this issue. let's start with the tax credit. >> sure. gerri: this is industry, let's face it they don't have a whole lot to show for themselves yet we subsidize them to the tune of $1.2 billion. why? >> remember the industry said we're all about reducing carbon dioxide. that was the whole argument. now it shifted we create jobs argument. if congress does not extend production tax credit we'll lose 37,000 jobs. they might get an extension but there is big push among utilities, a lot of groups to end the tax credit and it very well could be ended. gerri: it doesn't work that well. 84% fail to produce electricity when the demand is great. as a solution to our energy problems how would you rate it? >> it is not a solution and it is wholly dependent on electric utilities and electric generation that can be dispatched. we can't count on
serious about cutting the defsht and deficit? >> this is, look, this is the greatest irony of this entire discussion. and it is getting lost too much i think in the sometimes in the weeds of the back and forth negotiations. remember, the reason that we're doing this is because this grew out of the 2010 elections and debates over raising debt ceiling that following summer, 2011. the entire purpose was to reduce the size and scope of government in a way responsible to the voters of that midterm election. instead what we're almost certain to see is an expansion of government in the name of reintroducing it. we're likely to see much bigger government long term. we're not likely to deal with entitlement reforms as we need to do. as you suggest the president is pushing some short-term spending increases often in washington turn into long-term spending increases. gregg: but, steve, bill kristol, conservative, you know what, time to throw in the towel. you do not want to get blamed for raising taxes on 98% of americans. >> right. gregg: right? >> look, bill kristol is my boss and editor at "the w
their deficit and we cannot, the world will switch to euros. there is a tweet here -- guest: the cbo is supposed to be a political, but it cannot be too alarmist. if we go over the cliff, we are looking on january 1, some of this is already milton. about $600 million -- $650 billion in spending cuts and tax increases. that is about 4% of gdp. that is an enormous negative stimulus. a detraction from demand. that would surely be a deep recession. the cbo relies on simulation models that did not take into consideration investor sentiment, the reaction of consumers, and so forth that they wholly lose confidence in their government. if we go over the cliff and stay there, people will start to conclude that washington cannot manage its affairs. all bets are off on economic modeling. it is impossible to say what happened that other than it would be very negative. host: one piece that you actually did right has this headline -- take the idea of a recession next year. with the perspective of everything else going on, when a recession look like? guest: it depends on how we get there. if we have a fiscal c
's anti-fragile. you need also to have less deficit on the part of government and transfer it to the states. more decentralized decision making. why? because if you do you have decentralized errors. not one error dragging you down and last decade two errors in the down. iraq war. you know? it was a horror from human side. but it cost between 40 and 120 times the original estimates. you don't want mistake that is are very large. a fragile system is one in which mistakes are costly and the benefits are small and anti-fragile system is one in which mistakes are small and bring long-term benefits. we want to be in that environment and environment that ben filths of mistakes. >> i hear what you're saying. shifting the debt burden from the federal government and states and federal government is a better position to carry debt. states have these constitutional balance budget amendments and bail out the states, isn't it? >> this is exactly the problem we have is that the government finds it easy to borrow and runaway deficit. let me explain the big thing. a project in the uk where
changes to our entitlement programs in order to reduce the deficit. >> all right. we're just listening to a democrat, tom harkin, criticizing the deal so far. the question -- we're speaking specifically of the concessions, perhaps the $450,000 offer we're aware of coming from vice president biden. are the president and democrats caving too much? tom harkin is expressing that frustration. >> well, i think we're all frustrated about that. i think the american people, 60% to 70% of the american people believe the president was correct in setting the limits at 250 and 200,000 for individuals as the cap on making sure that those taxes didn't go up for those americans making less than that. 70% of americans think that's about right. they voted in the presidential election and re-elected a president who said that was his criteria. but the president understands this is a process where compromise is necessary. the house of representatives, controlled by the republicans, clearly has indicated that a million dollars was not acceptable to it in the united states senate. clearly, mitch mcconnell co
kind of deficit the losers are facial as we go into the new year. "squawk on the street" is back in a minute. [ male announcer ] feeling like a shadow of your former self? c'mon, michael! get in the game! [ male announcer ] don't have the hops for hoops with your buddies? lost your appetite for romance? and your mood is on its way down. you might not just be getting older. you might have a treatable condition called low testosterone or low t. millions of men, forty-five or older, may have low t. so talk to your doctor about low t. hey, michael! [ male announcer ] and step out of the shadows. hi! how are you? [ male announcer ] learn more at isitlowt.com. [ laug hey! [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ]
it because it's required for congress to authorize borrowing money to pay our debt and deficit obligations. it's, the way i look at it, it is a mere constitutional technicality and we should raise it. i would like to make one point about on the downgrade issue that he just talked about. if we go over the fiscal cliff, that would certainly be no reason for a downgrade because we would be cutting the deficit and the debt. lori: right. >> but if we kick the can down the road here and don't do anything with a short-term solution, then i think it would be reasonable for the debt, excuse me for --. lori: another downgrade. >> for us to be downgraded, excuse me. lori: let me send it back over to you. there is a line of thinking if we do suffer a second credit downgrade that it could actually have more of ramification than just one downgrade because you do have a handful of credit agencies, right? if you're creditor of the united states and looking at the credit rating and now you have not just one but two, so you have a majority of more negative credit ratings versus pristine credit rating across
cut the deficit budget. the court took issue with not with the tax, but taxing household equally. and for the latest headlines log onto foxnews.com. you're watching the most powerful name in news, fox news channel. >> paul: welcome back to this special he edition, journal he had t.editorial report. and this year continued high unemployment and slow economic growth. what can we expect in 2013? we're back with dan henninger, mary anastasia o'grady and dan moore. mary explain the slow growth and the markets. >> if respect to the markets, i would say if you look at a chart for, for example, the s&p 500, you go back to april of 2011 to october of 2012. you're basically flat. there's a lot of churning up and down, but in the last months a pickup there and certainly, from the end of -- from the beginning of this year we saw a run on the market, but you don't have a great return if you're a long-term investor. >> paul: right, so, okay, if growth is still slow, okay, why are-- and some people are still investing in companies and the corporate balance sheets earnings have been pretty good,
he can pass the obama tax cut and say look, i'm bringing in revenue. i lowered the deficit. pass his tax cut. a win and he can blame the g.o.p. i would argue i don't think the g.o.p. had the ball on this fight. i don't think they gave it up. i don't think they had it. it's very tough for them to win against the white house like this. and a white house press corps that is not going to report anything negative against the president. >> eric: the ball is a debt ceiling. remember, all the negotiations, tell you, i'll get to greg, they have to go through the house. money negotiations go through the house. if the house says no on raising debt ceiling they can create havoc. go ahead. >> greg: i don't care anymore. >> kimberly: okay. you did last week? >> greg: as a human being in this discussion, i have already lost. both options going over the fiscal cliff and not going over the fiscal cliff are losers. that leads to a big lie. when this was made it was supposed to be bad for both sides. remember, high taxes and democrat sweet 16 party. they love that stuff saming that to dems is saying i
million americans, protect middle america the middle income americans and also work on deficit reduction. >> the president solution would still leave red ink as far as the eye could see. and difficult for jobs. >> this is it difficult for the brink of perpetual gridlock. >> this is likely that we will go over the fiscal cliff and not and if we allow that to happen. would be the most concord consequential, terrible act of gridlock. >> president obama is in hawaii but could possibly cut his vacation short to hammer out a deal. >> thousands of nurses will walk off the job today at nine bay area hospitals. nurses with sutter health's alta bates summit medical center are asking for negotiated labor contracts care protections. such as staffing levels, health benefits, and sick days. strikers say hospital officials want to reduce the number of paid sick days for nurses and technicians, while eliminating health care coverage for those who work fewer than 30 hours a week. >> analysts say many shoppers haven't been in the holiday spirit when it comes to spending money. the four-day black friday we
control. all that was ignored. we talked about simpson-bowles, deficit reduction, and affordable care act. >> with no explanation of what they were for the average person. >> it was sort of the inside the beltway debate, and you get one positive debate for the entire fall campaign. you open things up to new voices to broader perspectives. i don't mean to pick on jim lehrer too much, but really, enough of it. >> chris, the worst move? >> the worst move, the decision by both the obama campaign and the not so surprising decision on never raising climate change for the first time. since 1988, if you go back to the tape when lloyd benson, they both said yeah, that will be a problem, we should do something about it. here we are, 24 years later and it doesn't even get a mention in any of the debates. >> i have another video assist, the worst move, the worst decision of the campaign was to do what you're about to see. at the republican convention. >> oh. >> i just wondered -- all of these promises, and then i wondered about -- you know, when -- the -- what do you want me to tell romney? i can't t
worse of a deficit. >> if you start to cut spending you're going to cut jobs. if you raise taxes you're going to cut jobs. at some point we've got to say we're going to do what's best for the long-term picture and either way we're going to take a short-term hit for longer term, more-- >>, but you could do it with less pain than what congress is about to deliver. >> you can put in spending cuts that the markets will appreciate in a long-term plan, as opposed to-- >> it's not about the market. david: bottom line, what we need are jobs and growth and tax increases are not the way to get there. gang, thank you very much. well, coal imports in china were up almost 30% as the price of coal continues to plummet. the iea says that china will be number one in coal consumption after the chinese government said they would use more renewable energy, but coal will account for about 70% for the country's energy for the next five years. joining us now is rob deans, how can they get away with this under the kyoto protocol? >> david, there's inescapebly keynesian you and i talking about goal on chris
the click is a win for him. he can say i am bringing in revenue, i am lowering the deficit. and he can still blame the gop when their tacks go up. i don't think the grass pollen had the ball in this fight. i don't think they gave it up, i don't think they ever had it. it's tough for them to win against a white house like this and a white house press core that's not going to report anything negative against the president. >> there's a ball and the ball is the debt ceiling. all these things, i will get to craig, but have to go through the house. the money negotiations have to go through the house. if the house says no on raising the debt ceiling, they can create a lot of havoc. go ahead, greg. >> you know what? i don't care anymore. >> oh, okay. >> because as a human being in this discussion i've already lost, both options going over the fiscal cliff and not going over the fiscal cliff in my opinion are losers and that leads to the big lie. when the fiscal cliff preposition was made it was supposed to be bad for both sides. but remember high taxes and defense cuts, that's a democrat's sweet 16
family would pay 2,000 to $4,000 more in taxes next year. but, if you're a deficit hawk, you might be happy with this news. the congressional budget office estimates that with all of these new tax revenues, plus those mandatory spending cuts kicking in january 1st, that would all cut the deficit in half next year to about $600 billion. kelly? kelly: we would go through this for about half a year. then there's a talk among some people, that we would actually rebound at the end of six months or so. but that is a lot of pain to go through. is there any idea of what could happen to the economy or stock market as a result of congressional inactivity? >> well, yeah. the cb. off and many private economists say that the $600 billion in fiscal tighting, as you say would push the economy into recession next year and send the unemmoment rate to back above 9%. a survey of investment managers found 60% of the them see a drop in the dow industrials of 10% or more if the cliff is not avoided. kelly? kelly: boy, that is very ominous. peter, thank you. hopefully something can be done. peter barnes.
are tough questions to answer. my priority is always education and our long term problems. i'm not a deficit hawk. people on both sides do bothwell. i don't understand the fuss about raising the age qualification for social security are medicare. and plead with the caps -- simply lift the caps. franklin roosevelt to not want to be called a socialist. if we just lived in those caps, we would delay -- i can remember the exact numbers. for several decades, anyway. i think that would be less painful than raising the qualified age. medicare is the toughest because of health care costs have been skyrocketing. our country's health care cost is rising faster than any other industrial nation. we don't have much coronation. obamacare had to be cobbled together to appease everybody. we have it and we should be focusing on ways to make our health care more efficient and i think we will. these are all tough problems but they need to be handled. being president is like playing three-dimensional chess. maybe four dimensions. caller: thank you, c-span. is the last year, didn't the president give over $1 tri
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